Neurotypical privilege

[aesmael]

Bev|Asperger Square 8, and others, have been constructing a rather excellent checklist of neurotypical privilege. It started off in an earlier post with a request for input, and has been discussed by Lindsay at Autist's Corner too - am very glad it has been, as otherwise would have forgotten to say anything publicly about this. Do take a look at Lindsay's post as well, as it carries a neat explication of how some of these factors intersect with other people.

Personal favourites, probably because they reference areas of especial personal relevance, include:

"The services that I need to survive not only already exist, but even if I use those services on a 24-hour basis, I will always be considered independent."

suggested by Amanda|Ballastexistenz and

If my sexual orientation, gender identity, lifestyle preferences or beliefs are deemed nonstandard, others will not suggest that I am pretending, incorrect, jumping the gun or unable to really know such things about myself because I am neurotypical. They will not use my neurotypical status as a basis for defending intolerant remarks or beliefs about any of these identities.

suggested by pazi_ashfeather.

Wish I had more to contribute to the discussion but my own experiences haven't been, haven't been anything I want to talk about right now. And mostly indirect too, except stuff like the above quoted - family requiring a psychologist to decide for me whether I am competent to assert a gender other than the one they put on me, and being not allowed to express that this might be anything other than right and proper. But we really don't want to get into that.

Perhaps another time. Humanist stuff tends to run on percolation and spontaneous eruption, in this one's expression.

Comments

[jessie-c.livejournal.com]

If my sexual orientation, gender identity, lifestyle preferences or beliefs are deemed nonstandard, others will not suggest that I am pretending, incorrect, jumping the gun or unable to really know such things about myself because I am neurotypical.

Perhaps my parents didn't get the memo then. I got all of that. May I suggest s/will not/ are less likely to/?

[aesmael.livejournal.com]

No, because being autistic is not why you were questioned.

[jessie-c.livejournal.com]

But I still got questioned so that's not always a neurotypical privilege. We can all get hit with that one.

[pazi-ashfeather.livejournal.com]

To clarify:

I'm not saying you won't get questioned if you're neurotypical. What I'm saying is, when you are questioned, people won't try to justify it because you're neurotypical (and therefore less capable of good judgement).

It's an intolerant and stupid thing either way; no less so for a neurotypical person, but there's an additional layer of socially acceptable "shielding" when doing such with autistic or otherwise neuro-atypical people because we're popularly thought of as being unable to exercise clear judgement or even self-awareness. Even people who wouldn't agree with the open statement "autistics/others lack self-awareness/the ability to make good decisions" still behave in ways that show they believe it, sometimes even when it contradicts other things they believe.

We have to deal with that in all areas of our lives, whether we're queer/trans/whatever or not. It gets used reflexively to justify oppressive statements of all kinds about us anyway.

Someone may suggest you can't really be trans or you don't know what you're thinking/doing or you're mistaken, but they are exercising transphobia over you; whereas when they couch it in terms of ability, they are exercising transphobia *and* ablism over us.

[pazi-ashfeather.livejournal.com]

To put it another way, when I said:

[i]If my sexual orientation, gender identity, lifestyle preferences or beliefs are deemed nonstandard, others will not suggest that I am pretending, incorrect, jumping the gun or unable to really know such things about myself[/i] because I am neurotypical", What I mean is, people will not use neurotypicality to justify doing those things. It doesn't mean they won't do them, just that they won't fall back on my neurotype as an excuse for such treatment.

[jessie-c.livejournal.com]

Yes, it's a really problematic one; the same oppression used for two different things. My problem is that being Trans is still in the DSM, just as being Gay was only 30 odd years ago. There are still far too many people who truly believe that Trans- and Gay-folk are not sane by their standards and so not entirely neurotypical (but not Autistic; is there a distinction there?).

Perhaps the statement can better be phrased something like "Autism is used as the primary reason why you cannot possibly be a sexual minority because you're not capable of making that decision for yourself. You're just confused." Or words to that effect.

[pazi-ashfeather.livejournal.com]

While transsexualism is still in the DSM, it's not treated like a disability by the public at large. I've grown up autistic, and spent the last four years of my life visibly trans, and I don't think it's fair to directly compare them like this. Autistic people face this pressure around being queer, trans, poly or whatever else, and it isn't the same as the pressure people who are those things get for being those things.

I hate to make comparisons like this, but it's sort of like a trans PoC who faces additional racist discrimination on top of the trans discrimination. They will deal with the shit that trans folk are forced deal with, plus the shit people of color are forced to deal with, and while I as a white trans person can relate overall to their trans experience, my white privilege gets me off the hook of having to acknowledge race and racism. It's still not okay for me to suggest that I, as a trans person, go through exactly the same thing they do (even if I've been harassed, threatened, homeless, disowned much like many transfolk) because I don't.

No offense, but I think this might be your neurotypical privilege showing. ;) An autistic person is telling you that they experience different issues being trans than non-autistic trans people do, and you're continuing to insist that there's really not much difference here.

[jessie-c.livejournal.com]

I very much don't want to shove my neurotypical privilege in your face and I agree completely with your premise; autistic-spectrum people are definitely discriminated against in the manner you speak of. However, I still maintain that we non-autistics are so often accused of being "crazy" by the mainstream that the distinction is very small and vague. As I said, it's a very problematic situation and I submit that the "privilege gap" may not be as large as it may seem to you. That's why I'd like to see it worded very carefully, to highlight the neurotypical privilege and to distinguish from the cisprivilege. I admit that I haven't got the experience nor the knowledge to write it properly.

[pazi-ashfeather.livejournal.com]

I very much don't want to shove my neurotypical privilege in your face

But you kind of are doing that, Jessie. I understand it's not your intent, but it's what you're doing, intentions be what they may.

However, I still maintain that we non-autistics are so often accused of being "crazy" by the mainstream that the distinction is very small and vague.

And that's easy for you to say, because you don't experience being trans *and* ASD.

You have a deep and acute understanding of the way trans people are dismissed and their views discounted. You don't have the same level of understanding about what ASD folks experience there, or how the two interact, and it's really dismissive to say that the difference is minor at best.

As I said, it's a very problematic situation and I submit that the "privilege gap" may not be as large as it may seem to you.

That's easy for you to say. You're privileged in this area, so this is all abstract for you.

That's why I'd like to see it worded very carefully, to highlight the neurotypical privilege and to distinguish from the cisprivilege. I admit that I haven't got the experience nor the knowledge to write it properly.

Given the responses I've seen from other queer/poly/trans/whatever ASD folk in the blogosphere, I think it's clear enough.

I'll give you that the wording is probably a bit cumbersome for neurotypical readers (it seems to flow more naturally for aspie-types), but at most I'd change the order of the existing words to clear that up.

[jessie-c.livejournal.com]

Growf. Formatting fail. Take two:
Okay, I accept that my privilege in this area is showing. I don't want that so I'm asking for your help because I really want to be sensitive to your situation. How can we show that the questioning we get is different? How can we show that being oppressed by the same words by the same people has a different impact for you than it has for me?

Given the responses I've seen from other queer/poly/trans/whatever ASD folk in the blogosphere, I think it's clear enough.

I'll give you that the wording is probably a bit cumbersome for neurotypical readers (it seems to flow more naturally for aspie-types), but at most I'd change the order of the existing words to clear that up.

I think that's important. Remember that this privilege checklist is aimed at we poor privileged neurotypical types and we don't see things the way you do. What's clear for you is confusing for me in this case. Can we clear it up? Remember that to me the distinction is vague and it's me and people like me whom you want to empathise with your situation. That's the point of a privilege checklist, yes? How can we explain it so the distinction is clearer?

[mantic-angel.livejournal.com]

Taking a shot at an illustrative example:

When I was 10 I couldn't buy cigarettes because I wasn't old enough to understand the consequences and make a rational decision for myself. Now all I have to deal with is the societal pressure that it's "wrong" to smoke and that I'm a bad, unhealthy person for it.

As an aspie, I'm not allowed to be trans, because I'm not capable enough to understand the consequences and make a rational decision for myself. Once I get past all that red tape, I STILL have to deal with the same crap you do: the societal pressure that it's "wrong" and that I'm a bad, unhealthy person for it.

[aesmael.livejournal.com]

You seem to be confusing "You claim to be trans, therefore you are are crazy" with "Your brain works differently, therefore you can't be trans because you don't even understand what that is."

Also, not wanting to express privilege doesn't mean you aren't, just means you aren't getting treated like someone who is being deliberately obnoxious.

[jessie-c.livejournal.com]

That's a wonderful explanation. That's how the same words oppress booth of us in different ways. May I suggest that this gets included? It resonates very deeply for me.

And yes, I see how I've been expressing privilege. My bad, I'll have to try even harder to be aware of it. Thanks very much for not treating me like someone being delibreately obnoxious.
*offers hugs to aesmael and pazi_ashfeather*

[lost-angelwings.livejournal.com]

But it wasn't attributed to you being NT.

They didn't take another part of who you are (for example, being autistic) and point to it to negate or dismiss your ability to know yourself. That's the difference.

While you were doubted, it wasn't another part of your identity, who you are, that had them say "Well you can't possibly know anything about yourself..."

Like... queer ppl are distrusted around children a lot, sometimes assumed to be pedophiles or not safe to have around b/c they are queer. And a hetero person can say that hetero ppl are distrusted around young children often too, but the thing is, it's not for being hetero. They don't bring up heterosexuality as the problem or as being innately tied to pedophilia.

There's a lot of examples where you can have similar results but that doesn't negate the differences in privilege and oppression dynamics involved. (the whole "but men/white ppl/etc get blah blah blah too" thing)

[jessie-c.livejournal.com]

See my reply to Pazi where I clarify my point.

[cmcmck.livejournal.com]

While I agree with you absolutely on the concept of neurotypical privilege (I possess it, after all) I would agree with Jessie that it maybe doesn't work with gender identity- I recall the docs who refused to treat me or tried to have me sectioned (ie locked up) under the mental health acts and the parents who showed me the door at fifteen and the years of 'stealth' way back because being out simply wasn't a safe option- being trans was an instant sacking offence for instance and I had many years of being an Orwellian 'unperson' before the passing of the new gender identity laws here in the UK in 2003/4.

Neurotypicality may bring a lot of privilege, but I don't think this is one of them.

[pazi-ashfeather.livejournal.com]

I think maybe you've misunderstood what I said.

I'm not saying you won't face injustice and discrimination for being trans. I'm saying that people won't try to justify it by also committing discrimination and injustice against you on the grounds you're neurotypical.

It's the intersection of transphobia and ablism, and it does make a difference. I'm not downplaying at all the bad shit neurotypical trans people have had to deal with, but people don't point to your neurotype as a basis for justifying it. There aren't popular notions of neurotypicals as unable to exercise good judgement or be truly self-aware, but those ideas do exist about ASD/other non-neurotypical people.

What you've gone through as a trans person would have been even more difficult if you were also autistic at the time. As bleak as your treatment was, it could have been worse on that basis. Just because you were abused for being trans, repeatedly, doesn't mean that you didn't benefit in some ways from being neurotypical.

[pazi-ashfeather.livejournal.com]

"not to downplay the shit that neurotypical people"

By which I mean, neurotypical trans people.

[allieflowlight.livejournal.com]

Thank you for making me aware of this. I really like Pazi's suggestion, too.

I will have to think about whether I want to contribute anything.

[allieflowlight.livejournal.com]

Clarifying: I do want to contribute something. I just don't know what, yet.