Heh

[aesmael]

    Reportedly J. K. Rowling thinks she kept Christian references in her story hidden and saved more explicit ones until the end, yet the only holiday anyone ever celebrated or attached strong importance to was Christmas. Always amused I was by Christians complaining her books were a weapon wielded against her faith when for me they contained an irritating implicit claim of Christianity as truth.

    Still have not read the last, mind.

    Link via SFSignal and contains spoilers. Tried to skip my eyes over those as much as possible.

Comments

[aki-no-kaze.livejournal.com]

wait, what? the Halloween feast was FAR more important then the xmass one. I admit I am only up to book 4, but of those 4 years the only interesting thing to happen on xmass was the Ball in book 4... 1-3 it was mostly a non-issue except to point out that Harry wasn't going home to the Dursleys.

[aesmael.livejournal.com]

Drat! I did in fact forget about Halloween (except for that niggling doubt suggesting it might have been celebrated too, but basically I forgot). Now I wonder if the Christmases stuck in my mind precisely because Harry was not going home. It seemed to me like a time of peace and joy for the characters and relative quiet in the story.

I have not read them since the sixth came out, though. Perhaps my memory is rusty. Still stand by the fact I formed that impression though. ;-)

[varinobo.livejournal.com]

"they contained an irritating implicit claim of Christianity as truth."

It wasn't totally overt in the books and with the Christmas thing, I've never really regarded Christmas as an overtly Christian holiday despite what it represents. Nowadays it's about giving gifts. So I disagree that the books had an "irritating implicit claim of Christianity as truth" just because they celebrate Christmas and hadn't mentioned god, jesus or any church.

[aesmael.livejournal.com]

You left off the part where I wrote 'for me'. That part was important. You also seem to have misunderstood the meaning of 'implicit'.

I happen to enjoy Christmas too, and not see it as an especially Christian holiday, but I do not think everyone else sees it that way. I interpreted Rowling's insertion of it into the story as expressing Christian truth because of its presence in the calendar as one of the year's most important events and although there was no direct mention of the religious aspects of Christmas it still seemed a rather spiritual event for the characters. To restate hopefully more briefly: I read the Christmas of Harry Potter as reverent significance not directly related to the associated rituals. That despite the school being supposedly multi-ethnic no holidays associated with other real world religions were in evidence helped cement this impression (there was Halloween, but that was for the witches and wizards of the story, not anyone of a faith practiced here).

Perhaps I formed this impression because Harry was an orphan who was entirely unused to the getting and giving of gifts and, the story being told from his perspective, the added significance of this carried across to what I read.

[varinobo.livejournal.com]

You're right. I confused "implicit" with "explicit" which I've been guilty of doing before (damn "plcits"...) so apologies on that part. And as for the "for me" bit, I didn't have any evil intent to leave it out or anything and I would agree with it's importance if I was making an LJ post of my own referencing that quote. Otherwise I would assume if other people are reading the comments to this post chances are they have read the post itself.

But if I recall the books, Christmas was such a non-event except for the yule ball and Harry's first christmas away from home. Also if I recall, a lot of the students were sent home for the "holidays" not just Christmas although the timing does circulate around Christmas which could be said about any school (Here in North America and certainly in the U.K.) where Christmas decorations are put up and students go home for the holidays.

[whimsical-esper.livejournal.com]

Christmas is more pagan than christian in origin.

~S

[coniferous_you]

It sure is. What's odd is that I learned that from a priest. P:

[aesmael.livejournal.com]

Yup. I did not think it relevant though, since origins are not always the most important part of beliefs. That is why I do not tease Christians and tell them they are worshipping a pagan holiday - right now, for them, it is a Christian holiday.

[aesmael.livejournal.com]

Er, celebrating, not worshipping. I doubt many people, Christian or otherwise, worship Christmas.

[whimsical-esper.livejournal.com]

Yeah, that's why I stated that specifically rather than "zomg christmas is really pagan!" - cuz yeah, who's to say what Christmas is anyway? Ahh, there goes my subjectivism again

~S

[aesmael.livejournal.com]

Heh. You crazy subjectivists. *shakes what may or may not be a fist at you*

[lost-angelwings.livejournal.com]

Everybody celebrates Christmas. Even the ppl in the Star Wars galaxy. :(

[aesmael.livejournal.com]

People in the Star Wars galaxy celebrate Christmas most of all.

[taraxoxo.livejournal.com]

I think I could see it too, so it's not really too hidden. But then again, it carries the Christian 'message', not that the 'facts of the bible are true definitely', so I found it puzzling the way you say 'for me they contained an irritating implicit claim of Christianity as truth'. Surely it was a celebration of one of the best aspects of the tradition while still irritating fundamentalists, and by what's in there, if Potter is a Christ-like figure, Christ would also have to love gays, different people and be against racist conservatives, so another vindication for those who believe religion should stand on the side of liberalism. So good on her for doing that!

[coniferous_you]

Could all of this simply be that Rowling is not a member of the secular elite who scoff at anyone who uses a vaguely Christian reference? Could it be that she does not see including Christmas as that big of a deal? Could it be that it's simply a popular holiday that Western culture often celebrates? Could it be then, that the inclusion of Christmas is simply something that her intended audience(ie. thirteen year-olds) could relate to?

[aesmael.livejournal.com]

Could be. Do you think so? Am I a member of the secular elite? If not, can you find me one to enjoy/scoff at? Is there a reason most people are more focussed on my annoyance of the way I thought it handled than by my thinking it supportive of Christianity?